S83 Town Hall 3

[Mike Lowry]

How will taxes begin to impact the league in the coming seasons?
If you have experience with tax jail/hell and stuck around, what was that experience like?
If you have no frame of reference, what is your understanding of the tax system in NPBSL?

Rules: 1 point if you give thoughtful answers, which I will award after the timer ends for responses. The timer ends for responses at the moment the corresponding week's Sim is run.

Note: Use approximately 5 sentences as your bare minimum for 1 point. If you write 3 long, complex sentences, you'll still get a point. If you write 5, 3 word sentences, you will not get a point. Don't @ me.

Due: Due by the deadline for sim 3

[WigNosy]

How will taxes begin to impact the league in the coming seasons?
If you have experience with tax jail/hell and stuck around, what was that experience like?
If you have no frame of reference, what is your understanding of the tax system in NPBSL?

I'm of the opinion taxes won't play much impact for several seasons. This season, only two teams (Clippers, Kings) are in danger of paying the tax, and nobody's a repeater. A handful of points isn't going to be a huge deterrent.

The other thing I've been surprised by is the collective restraint owners have shown in UFA. For the most part, I haven't seen any max deals handed out to guys where I thought, "why did that guy get a max deal?" - except Terry Tyler, I guess. We'll have to see if owners continue to be able to restrain themselves, but it only takes a couple of owners to push the average salary players will accept up, and once that happens, look out.

I don't think in our current system the cap is that significant a deterrent to dynasties and it probably needs some tweaking. I have ideas on that but won't rehash them here; they're out there. Personally, I've never really had to be in tax jail because I generally keep one eye on my future books and when I start a cycle of years where I think I can compete for a title, I always try to have an idea on what year I plan to "reset" (at least as far as the repeater tax goes). I also tend to hoard points a couple of seasons in advance when I have decided I'm going to venture into tax territory.

I think if you are okay with losing an aging superstar on a max deal every 4 years or so, it's not that difficult to reset, you just have to be able to stomach "letting a guy go for nothing" - which isn't REALLY what you're doing, when you're resetting a tax bill, you're often letting a guy go in exchange for 100+ points (over the next 3-4 seasons). But we're all prisoners of the moment and in the short term, it feels bad to lose a guy, so... (shrug).

[Mike Lowry]

How will taxes begin to impact the league in the coming seasons?
I'll say the tax is coming in hot.
I commented in my presser that a fair amount of players were overpaid in this season's UFA. The same will happen next season, but without the cap space that has been a luxury to this point. At least 20 players will get max contracts next season, and it won't be easy to maneuver around them. The talent is too good to pass on, but the cap flexibility will not be out there to move the pieces for value. This was the last year for that. Moving forward, teams will have to make tough decisions. If you have guys like David Greenwood, or World B Free, or Michael Cooper, you don't want to max them because they can't singlehandedly carry your team, but other teams will be lurking, and if you try to lowball them too much, they might get snatched.

If you have experience with tax jail/hell and stuck around, what was that experience like?
I dipped in and out of the tax a few times in the old league. The last one was fairly significant - maybe 200 plus in the tax?
It seems to me that once tax is established, you almost HAVE to dance around it to compete at the highest level. You have to time your run and balance your books at the same time to get return on your investments. I had a ton of fun while I was in the tax. I probably traded at least a dozen lottery picks in a few seasons including the number 1 overall one year. It taught me a lot about how roster development affects valuation of players in my opinion. It's like throwing cards when bad hands keep coming your way in poker. Have to get the right hand and play it the right way.


If you have no frame of reference, what is your understanding of the tax system in NPBSL?
Obviously I have a frame, but when I didn't, I tried to avoid going into the tax the first time, but I couldn't get return on trades I had made prior because I didn't take into consideration salary versus production.

[Darth Vegito]

I've known tax jail. It's hell. I want nothing to do with it. I'll do these 16-20 points. But I'd I'm not a top contender i can't justify being that much over. If I'm contending then I'll go over but otherwise...nope.

I think in about 3 seasons it'll be hitting folks hard. When you can't resign your guys or go over, let's see what ppl choose. It'll be fun.

[greepleairport]

How will taxes begin to impact the league in the coming seasons?
If you have experience with tax jail/hell and stuck around, what was that experience like?
If you have no frame of reference, what is your understanding of the tax system in NPBSL?

The taxes are going to hit like a hammer, but not as hard as I had hoped. I may be one of the only GM’s lamenting the partial passing of Wig’s proposed tax system, which included a tax floor, but I digress. We’ll be back to the sim days of old where if you wanna win a ‘ship? You’re probably going to pay a hefty fine to the tax man to do it.

Historically, I’ve pulled the plug before walking myself into tax jail. I never wanted to be held back in my decision making by getting too greedy for a season or three. I’ll probably operate in a similar way in NPBSL, but we’ll see. I may very well be the most expensive team next year, ready to walk some contracts back before I’ve had a chance to see them all through.

That said, tax jail or selling contracts can provide a similar amount of relief. You may have spent nearly a full real life year building your contender, and you either pulled it off or you didn’t. If you did? You’re excited to build the next one. If you didn’t? You’re relieved to concede defeat and try it all over again with what you learned from your last run at gold.


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[BigDaddyd8720]

I have no experience with the luxury tax. All of my teams have been well under the cap every season except this one which put me over by a little bit. I understand if my team keeps progressing the way it has, I may be looking at a luxury tax hit in the near future. I try to do what I can to stay below the cap but if I ever want to win, I’ll likely have to pay more money out to get top players. This was my first offseason with offering max deals too. I assume that’s a trend I’ll keep up with if I want to see my team go from a playoff contender to a championship contender


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[Xist2Inspire]

Lux Tax is the Great Filter, handling it well is probably the biggest single thing that separates "okay" GMs from "good" ones, and "good" ones from "great" ones. Fortunately, pretty much everyone in this league has at least a good bit of experience, so I don't see anyone getting caught off guard and rage quitting. I do think that things will be a lot healthier this time around though. Because the available cap being so low and the amount of talent so high, it'll force an economy wholly different from the inflated Free Agency contracts we had in the previous league. Back then, we had just recently gotten back to a varied market in terms of contracts after a lengthy period of max-or-min madness. Now, we're likely to enter things with a healthy mindset from the start.

As for me, it won't really affect my approach much. I've been in tax hell before, and it sucked to toss all those points into the void instead of building up promising young talent. But on the other hand, I was only in jail because I was competing for titles, so it was wasn't exactly a wasted effort. That's really the only advice I can give - never enter the tax for a team that's not competing first. If you feel you need to enter the tax to compete, that's fine, but make sure you have an escape hatch that you can pull immediately in case your team really isn't all that. Going into the tax should be the price for continued success, not for a chance at it.

[jlmarines]

I have minimum experience with tax. From previous league, I think only 3 times I paid a tax in 30 seasons that I played, which was 10 pts for each of those 3 seasons. Historically, I manage the Cavs to be conservative, which has hurt me many times. Often, I have not been aggressive enough. I do plan to be more aggressive in this league, however, I do not plan to be a repeater often. Occasionally, I will pay my tax, but do not expect me to owe like 100pts, similar to other teams in the previous league. Frankly, I do not have the time to deal with huge tax hits. I will follow the salary cap, and do my best to keep my salary around the league's salary cap.

[AngryBanana]

How will taxes begin to impact the league in the coming seasons?
If you have experience with tax jail/hell and stuck around, what was that experience like?
If you have no frame of reference, what is your understanding of the tax system in NPBSL?

Rules: 1 point if you give thoughtful answers, which I will award after the timer ends for responses. The timer ends for responses at the moment the corresponding week's Sim is run.

Note: Use approximately 5 sentences as your bare minimum for 1 point. If you write 3 long, complex sentences, you'll still get a point. If you write 5, 3 word sentences, you will not get a point. Don't @ me.

Due: Due by the deadline for sim 3

I think it may take a while for teams to really get to where we were before in NPBSL. We had contracts that had ballooned so much, I think people don’t realize it was so large. These smaller contracts I think will equal smaller bids, but hey. I’m terrible with math so let’s see.

I’m pretty afraid of tax jail. I think it’s so important to always have the ability to make moves or train players no matter what point you are in your build. I’ve pulled the rug on championship winning teams because I thought it was better to reset around the star player rather than pay tax man for another season and risk jail with a star on my team.


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[IamQuailman]

I agree with some of the sentiment that taxes won’t really become an issue until a few seasons from now. Once these first round Creation Draftees get their maxes and then RFA kicks in, that’s when we’ll start to see way more people leaning in to keep their own teams.

I’ve had some tax hell stuff in the past, not really bad bad though. You just have to know when to pull back and always be looking for contingencies if you have to pull the plug.

[Mike Lowry]

@WigNosy
@Mike Lowry
@Darth Vegito
@greepleairport
@BigDaddyd8720
@Xist2Inspire
@jlmarines
@AngryBanana
@IamQuailman

+1 point