MLEs and LLEs

[IamQuailman]

I know the game has the functionality... and we haven't used it since the old program/PR League.

I'd like to take this opportunity to use this as a talking ground for MLEs/LLEs and whether or not we use them

[LoCo89]

I feel like your trying to do this to Wig when he's down:

[IamQuailman]

lol

Nah, if i remember correctly in the old league, the MLE was $5.4mil and the LLE was $1.2mil. You could only use this if you were over the cap (and had paid your tax from the previous season). And I believe you could not trade them... and only could offer 1yr deals.

Obviously I THINK these rules are not system limitations, and if they aren't, I think it would be a good topic for debate.

a) MLE = ???? LLE = ??
b) 1-year deal only? Multi-year?
c) Tradeable?
d) Only available over the cap. (I think this is a given... no debate needed)
e) Lose rights to MLE/LLE if you do not pay the tax?

[Inner_GI]

I think we have to answer the question on why we need MLE and LLE? Is it to help teams that mismanaged their cap still participate in FA?

I'm struggling to see we gain from having these expections. I'm all for the stipulations you pointed out Doug, but just wonder if this league even needs it and what we hope to accomplish with it.

[IamQuailman]

I'm not saying we need it. I'm just saying that there is that option still available that we are not using in the game. It would definitely give those over the cap an ability to add talent. But this is also where being in the tax will hurt you. If you can't pay your bills, you gunna be fawked.

[Inner_GI]

I'm not saying we need it. I'm just saying that there is that option still available that we are not using in the game. It would definitely give those over the cap an ability to add talent. But this is also where being in the tax will hurt you. If you can't pay your bills, you gunna be fawked.

True. I don't see an issue with implementing it, but we'd have to adjsut the MLE and LLE $ values year by year. I think it changes with the cap number.

[ballsohard]

I think i'd be ok with it if those players were not tradeable and of course could only be offered 1 year deals.

[WigNosy]

Regardless of my team's current cap situation,

I think the MLE and LLE are only needed if you regularly have a more teams over the cap than under it (since only teams with less cap space than the MLE including teams over the cap get it). We don't.

Why don't we? Teams are scared to death of the luxury tax. Personally I think having the luxury tax kick in as soon as you are 1.5% over the cap is too soon. The cap in the NBA is 63.1 million this year and the luxury tax line is 76.8 million (a little over 20% of the cap).

If you want to bring in the LLE and MLE you need to move the luxury tax threshold up as well so teams will be able to float over the cap and under the tax and make use of the MLE/LLE. Using the NBA as a model and putting that line at 20-25% would probably be enough.

Also note I believe just like max contracts, FBB automatically adjusts the LLE and MLE each year once you put in the starting amounts. I think the amounts were 4.5 million and 1.2 million when the salary cap was 42.5 million in the real NBA around 2000, so if we implement this in a year or two our cap will be close to that and those are decent starting numbers to work with. Maybe 10% and 2.5% of the cap.

[ballsohard]

Why would we "need" to move the lux tax up? You can use your MLE and pay the tax or not. Don't see a "need" to move anything Bc of a exception personally. The punitive nature of the tax has left our league in a very respectable "financial" situation less a few teams ? Why fix what's not broken?


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[Inner_GI]

I wouldn't increase the luxury tax. To me the MLE and LLE will benefit the teams already over the cap, and most of those teams are already built with good to great players that will generate the points need to pay the tax.

You either choose to use your MLE or LLE and pay more tax because you think you are a couple bench player away from winning it all or you don't use the expection and go after vet min guys.

Would absolutely have to be 1 year deals only and untradeable.

[78#]

I vote no and I will explain in detail when I get a chance.

[78#]

Well not a fully non-committal no. I just like our system as is with the soft cap and luxury tax.

[IamQuailman]

Well not a fully non-committal no. I just like our system as is with the soft cap and luxury tax.

That was a very detailed explanation

[WigNosy]

Why would we "need" to move the lux tax up? You can use your MLE and pay the tax or not. Don't see a "need" to move anything Bc of a exception personally. The punitive nature of the tax has left our league in a very respectable "financial" situation less a few teams ? Why fix what's not broken?

The MLE and LLE are only available to teams that start the FA period (a) over the cap or (b) with less cap space than the amount of the MLE (or LLE as applicable). Historically this is 2-3 teams per year. There isn't a need to add the MLE if it only services 10% of the league. I would expect the MLE would be worth bothering with if, say, 50% of the league needed it.

The current luxury tax situation functions closer to a "hard cap" in practice. Which is fine (I am *not* philosophically opposed to a hard cap) but if that is the system you use, it means you don't really *need* an MLE/LLE. Not because "you don't want people exceeding the cap" but because "few teams will be in a cap situation where the MLE/LLE comes into play so why bother with the extra work?"

[ballsohard]

Why would we "need" to move the lux tax up? You can use your MLE and pay the tax or not. Don't see a "need" to move anything Bc of a exception personally. The punitive nature of the tax has left our league in a very respectable "financial" situation less a few teams ? Why fix what's not broken?

The MLE and LLE are only available to teams that start the FA period (a) over the cap or (b) with less cap space than the amount of the MLE (or LLE as applicable). Historically this is 2-3 teams per year. There isn't a need to add the MLE if it only services 10% of the league. I would expect the MLE would be worth bothering with if, say, 50% of the league needed it.

The current luxury tax situation functions closer to a "hard cap" in practice. Which is fine (I am *not* philosophically opposed to a hard cap) but if that is the system you use, it means you don't really *need* an MLE/LLE. Not because "you don't want people exceeding the cap" but because "few teams will be in a cap situation where the MLE/LLE comes into play so why bother with the extra work?"

I tend to agree with most of this. It's not that i dont want teams to go over the cap, i just want consequence and for it to not be sustainable for the long term future of a franchise.

[WigNosy]

We both think it is fine for teams to go slightly over the cap without consequence but that going too far over long term shouldn't be a viable strategy. The difference is in degree - 1.5% or 20%.

But that is a discussion for its own theead. Getting back to the original suggestion... I am opposed to implementing the MLE and LLE (even though they would have helped me sign more dudes) because I don't feel there is a pressing need for them under the current rules. About 90% of teams wouldn't get them in a given FA period anyway. no need for the added complexity when we don't fully have the current system down.