What was the best trade and the worst trade of the offseason? Why did each rank that way for you?
BigDaddyd8720: It hasn't come to fruition yet but my favorite trade this offseason is mine with the Bulls (and not because he's putting this article together). I needed depth at C/PF and he needed a starting SF and that's exactly what we both got. Eaton looks to be a great addition to give us some more defense while Purvis is showing he's really good at scoring. Both teams just need to figure out the rest of their squad before we see them starting to cement themselves in playoff contention. The worst trade to me has to be the celtics/76ers/Mavs. Sure the Celtics get their own pick back so it will help in the future, but I don't think that Mavs were Walter Davis away from being competitive. They could have held on to the pick and gotten a likely lottery pick since the Celtics didn't seem to be that good before making their other moves. And the 76ers got a decent young PG but they have shown to be very inactive. I think only one team cam away ahead in this trade.
Darth Vegito: For the best trade of the I think it's Kings/Spurs, Gminski for Eddie Johnson. But not using my own trade(which is hard because I negotiated so many great trades this off-season) I'd have to say the Malone trade. It's hard to trade for a purple player in this league. GMs are understandably very stingy when it comes to their own purp players. Only a handful of players are even worth said purple players. The return Magic got last season was not even close to his value. But for this Malone trade I think it was pretty fair in value and it got Malone's bitch ass out of the Western Conference so it was a win win.
For worst trade, I don't think it's happened yet. No trades have I looked at and thought they were terrible. So I think it's still coming.
IAmQuailman: I think the best trade of the season was the Spurs/Kings trade that centered around the 2 top players of Mike Gminski for Eddie A Johnson. The Spurs needed an absolute infusion of defense into their line-up after being one of the worst defensive teams in the league last year. In addition, they somehow added Kiki "Kevin Durant SNEK" Vanderweghe this offseason during free agency, who honestly has a similar build/style of play as 2 players on the Spurs (Johnson and Mark Aguirre). Talk about being flush with offensive talent. So it was a no brainer to move one of them for a premiere defensive player... and who's better than the literal Defensive Player of the Year from the previous two seasons? Clear win for the Spurs. The Kings as well, at the time of the move, were also overflowing with top end defensive talent putting DPOY & DPOY runner-up Alton Lister side-by-side. That project was short-lived, but honestly, Lister thrived with an elite offensive player next to him, and Eddie Johnson fits that bill perfectly. I think this trade was an example of one of the biggest Win-Win's of the season.
As for worst trade, I think I need to rate the Celtics trade of 15pts and a 2nd round pick for Dennis Johnson. I just don't understand why when you are clearly tanking you'd send out 15pts for a player that can only help you win. And now we look at the line-up. The Celtics GM paid 15pts to be the worst team in the league. And honestly, they probably would've been if they saved the 15pts. I don't know if this is the worst trade, but its definitely the one that made the least amount of sense to me. Congrats to the Sonics for getting 15pts & Pick #24 though!
TheSyndicate: Best trade was Moses to the Knicks for 2 picks and Darrell Griffith. I love it from the Warriors side. He got younger, cap space, AND 2 picks owned by a team that isn’t sure what they are yet. Griffith isn’t a dominant player for being purp, but he’s a good 2-way player, and those 2 picks could be real good.
Worst trade was the Suns/Lakers world b free for Larry smith. I don’t think I’ll be alone here. You gotta let that team in your division pay the tax man.
AngryBanana: Best trade: from my limited research - looking until I saw one I really liked it was the Kings Bucks trade. It really is a solid trade for both sides and they both get things they wanted. Kings got a big on a big contract to help him compete now. Where Lister is a guy who can go up against the Blunt Force Blazers and not get a concussion (even with injuries on). This also, in grand scheme of things looking at the Kings other trades, brings balance to the team. Lister can focus on defense and not take away shots from English and the rest of the offensive cast. For the bucks it does a few things. 1. He makes a trade. It’s something Quail has to do, especially after winning it all. Quail is not content with just running it back. He gets bored and has to do some sort of move to keep it interesting. 2. He got a great return. He was able to get two picks where one was a win now guard in Alvin Robinson, who looks like he can produce both now as a starter who is a secondary player, and grow into a bonafied stud in a few years. He also got Sam Perkins. Perkins I think is an interesting product that Quail is not going to keep. He is going to flip him for something else this season or in the future. Add in two Celtics, half season greats, in Toney and Vinnie. Where Toney will be a flamethrower on the court and Vinnie will be like JR Smith, great in spurts but also inefficient when not good. And finally, Quail got points from the kings too? Maybe this was a slime trade…
The worst trade I wish I could say is Jazz/Clippers/Hawks because it cause controversy on the first sim and I like the idea of sowing chaos. However, I don’t think people are going to give a toot about my thoughts enough to get mad at that. So I’m going to go with the probably the answer that most others will say and name Suns/Lakers. I joked about the last deal being slime, but initial outlook on this one is BAD. The 0-9 Suns traded for the older player fresh on a max salary five year deal. He responded by giving them 22 points, but also the worst fg% of his career so far. All of his shooting percentages are down across the board l. His usage is up, but his +/- has cratered as his efficiency numbers. Also, the one biggest plus the Suns had was that Larry Smith fouls. Which is very true. However, World B. Free seems like a slightly nicer Meta World Peace on the court. OK… maybe he isn’t that bad but he isn’t exactly a saint in regards to fouls. His 3.5 fouls per game is low by his standards at least. B. Free was brought in to be a leader for the team and be the top guy, and early results don’t show that.
Meanwhile… the Lakers… They got a starting Center who is 100 ORB and 99 DRB. He is shooting over .580 from the field and has played 26 mins per game, which is a high number for him. The Lakers also managed to lower their cap hit, get out of this contract potentially two years sooner than the other, and get out of the overpay of the league so far. To be fair, Smith won’t play over 30 mins a game, but with the rest of this team and the way they are playing he doesn’t need to because they may have 80% of their games wrapped up by the end of the third quarter. I would say that the Lakers Slimed the Suns, however we all know that the Lakers likes to throw out… interesting trade ideas to every team, so it’s not like he is targeting the Suns specifically. It’s just that this one worked.
If you can overturn a trade for any reason, which trade would you overturn and why? It could be for parity, to make your division weaker, or just for the hell of it.
AngryBanana: Oh. That’s right. This is all about trades… I forgot about that. I can’t go blowing my load all on the first question! Man, let’s go do some quick research and come back!
I think if I had to overturn one trade, it would be the Jazz/Bullets trade. I have no ill will towards them at all, but… excuse me while I put my full yellow suit on for this one…
I Don’t Need The Jazz Being Any Worse Than They Are After Losing Their Best Player. This Is Another Instance Where Another Team Is Coming Out Trying To Collude Against The Celtics. They Want To Take Away What Is Rightfully Mine In A Top Pick. It Seems Like It Is The Same Thing As Last Year For Excuses As To Why The Other Team Is Worse. “Ohhh He Just Didn’t Have His Best Player Available…” That’s Bull. They Just Want To Tank To Get The Best Pick And Will Do It Any Way They Can. Even By Intentionally Letting A Really Good Player Walk. This Trade Allows The Jazz To Trade Away The Other Best Player They Had In Chambers For A Guy Who Isn’t Really A Threatt, Two Washed Picks, And Some Measly Points. He Didn’t Even Try To Get Equal Value Back Because He Is Only Looking At Screwing The Celtics Over. The Only Silver Lining Is That He Made The Bullets A Better Team. Which, As A Team In My Division I Am All For. However, Chambers Is A Bench Player On The Bullets, So Is An Insurance Policy At Best. So, He Doesn’t Even Need The Guy! Clearly Still All A Poorly Veiled Attempt To Try To Make It Look Like It’s A Fair Deal.
BigDaddyd8720: I would overturn the Suns/Lakers trade of Larry Smith for World B. Free. This didn't make a lot of sense for the Suns. They took on 31yr old Max contract while giving up a solid PF entering his prime on a good contract. This gave the already juggernaut Lakers cap space to make moves next offseason too. I would overturn it to where the Lakers keep the contract so they have to choose between an insane luxury tax or not bringing back key players. Or at the very least have the Suns ask for a lot more since this did nothing but hurt them.
Darth Vegito: I would overturn the Bucks/Jazz trade and the Bucks/Suns trade. Just for the hell of it. It would annoy Doug so that's a good enough reason.
IAmQuailman: If there was one trade I could overturn from this entire offseason, I would pick to overturn the Jazz/Clippers/Hawks trade so that there would have not been any Depth Chart related drama post Sim 1. Let's save the drama for later in the season when things are quiet fellas, we already have too much excitement with Sim 1 going down! SHEESH.
TheSyndicate: The only trade I’d ever overturn is if there was actual collusion to build a super team, otherwise I like everyone trying their best to win, makes a ring that much sweeter.
What player that moved teams will be the most impactful in each conference? The impact could be making a team better or making a team worse. Expand on your opinion.
TheSyndicate: The Spurs/Kings trade was super interesting in the West, I’m not sure Darth is going to be happy about playing against the DPOY, when they’ve also got 3 other 20+ppg guys, and this is probably the WORST they’ll be. Either way, that trade will tell the story of the West (in the non-Lakers juggernaut division)
I wish I had an answer for the East, but I have no idea who’s even good or bad right now. I guess the most impactful is that there was NO trade to create some juggernaut. I don’t think anyone’s chips are fully fully in.
AngryBanana: Everyone is going to say it’s Gminski and I think they have a solid argument there, but the spurs just have so many players, I’m going to look elsewhere for BIGGER impacts.
I Am Going To Go With The Other Obvious Answer And Say It’s The Soon To Be Top Pick By Yours Truly, The Celtics Pick This Offseason!
Just kidding. While I do think getting that pick will be a true help for my team I think the Knicks getting Moses Malone will be huge! The combo of King and Malone alone will be underrated combo for the next few seasons. The Knicks still have some kinks that they need to figure out, namely defense and figuring out how to optimize Malone (who only has a 2.9 +/- rating right now and barely a higher Offensive Efficiency to Defensive Efficiency). However, this is a good problem to have, and the Knicks have already started their problem solving by adding Stipanovich. Y’know, actually looking at their ratings, it’s not a defensive issue entirely because they have a top end ranked defense right now. They just need more efficiency out of their players around Moses I guess.
However, with the way Moses is playing they will even out their team and start winning. Hell, they will probably force Ralph to not be an all league player again.
BigDaddyd8720: I think Eddie Johnson going to the Kings will end up being the most impactful. The Kings took a step back last season and the addition of Johnson, along with Lister, gets them right back into championship contention. They also get the ability to sign him to a max contract or at least be able to do a sign and trade deal should they win the championship this season.
Darth Vegito: I would say and think Malone should have the biggest impact on the East. I would think the Knicks would be strong contenders for the Eastern crown...but then Sim 1 happened and I'm not so sure. Hopefully the Knicks GM can pull together the right gameplan and figure it out quick before he loses too much ground.
Obviously the Jazz losing Kiki in UFA is the biggest and most impactful that will make a team worse. That signing sent the Jazz right into rebuilding mode, so now let's see if they can grab what would be a diamond in Utah in Chris Mullin.
IAmQuailman: In the East, I think Calvin Natt going to the Bulls is a HUGE get for that team. Logan has done an incredible job building the Bulls up over the last couple seasons and has really wheeled & dealed his way into not only division title contention, but conference title contention. Calvin Natt might be one of the most unheralded players in the league. The dude is in the midst of entering his prime years, and is an absolute menace on the offensive side of the court. It's a surprise his name is never up there for MVP talks, he's absolutely in the top 5-6 of scorers in the NBA right now.
For the West, I would say Michael Jordan if we were talking draft included in this... but since it says moved teams, I'm going to stay with that same team but re-visit Mike Gminski. I can't emphasis enough how much of an impact this move will have on the league for years to come. Gminski is LOCKED IN as a set it and forget it Defensive Player of the Year candidate, with Alton Lister really as his only competition (MAYBE Terry Tyler? hehe). Putting this defensive presence around elite scorers like Mark Aguirre, Kiki Vanderweghe, Michael Jordan, Isaih Thomas... I mean, Mike himself can put the ball in the basket pretty damn well too! This group may take some time to figure each other out, but when they do... watch out.
What player that did move this offseason, through free agency or trade, would you most want on your team? Explain how that player would fit so well.
IAmQuailman: Not to revisit past answers, but I'm going to cheat and give 2. Both would play the same position on my squad (center). I have an absolute foundational belief that shot blocking and reboundig is really the foundation of championship basketball in sim NBA. For this reason, my #1 fit/desire would be Mike Gminski. I'm not going to talk about him more than I already have outside of the fact that he just would be the perfect fit next to McHale. 2 defensive anchors down low, and 2 offensive threats. It would be unstoppable. Think Malone & Parrish but BETTER (sorry Greeple). If Gminski wasn't the option, I would bring back Alton Lister. Trade regret is real and not having a player of his defensive caliber next to McHale is something I sometimes think about taking back (although I like the flexibility trading Lister gave me). McHale & Lister were a great pair, and Lister would only be better if he had the fortitude to score more... but that's okay when you got McHale next to you.
TheSyndicate: I’m pretty stout defensively, so a scoring machine like Kiki or King would have been impactful, I have a little aversion to guys that don’t play defense, but having a scorer or two isn’t bad and I don’t REALLY have any true scorers at this point, at least until some kids develop more. Outside of that, I’d take those Knicks picks.
AngryBanana: James Edwards! Because I Would Love To Be Able To Put Him In My Lineup And Not Rely On BigDaddyD To Give Him Minutes After I Had Four Days To Input One Myself. What The Hell, He Is Crazy For Using His Judgement After I Won’t Answer Back, Put In Recommend Myself (Which Is Wild He Didn’t Do Himself)
I’d also say the Nuggets pick because that would look like the best pick of the bunch right now to help me in my rebuild. Which I am in full swing of doing so I’ll happily take on another top ten pick to help the cause, but alas I’ve already talked about that trade so it won’t be fun to do again. I also think the Nuggets would spite me and do anything they can to make the pick bad.
I think a player currently in NPBSL that would fit in very well with the build I’m going for right now would be purvis short. I really like his game and I think he would be a great compliment to Ralph and Hakeem. He is an offensive hit that would be another 20+ scorer and can play good perimeter defense to help round out my team’s grit. He is a taller player at 6’7”, is close to getting under 3 fouls per game, and is an athletic freak. He also has a high contract that would fill out my roster (even though I tried to sign people in UFA, literally no one wanted to come) and would fall off the books as I’m having to pay Ralph and Hakeem, so I would be able to either offload him for more talent, resign him, or let him walk and hope to sign some guys in UFA.
BigDaddyd8720: Clemon Johnson was the player I wanted the most, of the ones that did change teams. I set out to improve my C/PF depth and had I gotten him to go along with Eaton, I would have not had to worry about whoever was on the court. They all could have complimented each other really well, even though Clemon took a bit of a hit in TC. But even then he would have been my 4th best big man so it wouldn't have been that impactful to me since he's not a starter.
Darth Vegito: Kiki is the one that stands out. But that's an obvious one and most of the other big names that moved was players on my team, so I'll go with Tom Chambers. I think he's a very versatile player that would fit on almost any team. I am happy with the PF I got but Chambers would have worked well also.
Rate some of the important things to consider when looking for a trade. Why are these things so important in that order for you? I.e. player fit, salary, age, from a contender or not.
Darth Vegito: Player fit may be ranked on top of my list. You can't just throw 5 random guys on a team and think they'll play well together. I've learned that the hard way. They have to fit into what you want to do as a team, what kind of offense you want, defense, pace you want to run and so on. This is nearly the ONLY thing I worry about when trading.
I certainly don't care about salary. If the trade fits and is legal I don't care about the money. Now or future. I have to sign 2 more maxes next season and my thought process is that I'll deal with it then not now.
Age matters, just depends on what you want. Contending now? Rebuilding? Not quite there yet?
And from who I trade with? There's a few that are very difficult and always want to win the trade. I always consider that before I ever inquire. I don't have time for talks that waste my time.
IAmQuailman: This is a great question. I think for me I would rank Fit #1 followed by #2 quality of offer from other team then #3 Age and then #4 Salary. When I make a trade, I want to make sure that the player coming in will have a bigger positive impact that the negative impact of the outbound player. This is USUALLY my rule of thumb, but sometimes it can get overruled by just the volume of the offer. For example, Lister's impact on the court is WAY greater than Robertson, Perkins, Johnson, & Toney's combined impact. However, the volume of options and flexibility the swap give me overruled the #1 for me. I'm also looking to keep a balance of salary & age so that I really don't get stuck in the end with old declining players or inflated salaries.... navigating the salary cap is important to me (despite what the end of the previous league looked like). There are also a couple things I do consider in trades, for example... if I have a team's pick in the upcoming draft I might consider an offer (if it makes sense) to a team AHEAD of that pick's team in the playoff standings to help EDGE them into the lotto (or maybe a team JUST behind them in the standings that is looking to get better). Not really spite, and I don't go out of my way to do that, but something I would absolutely consider if the opportunity presented itself.
TheSyndicate: You gotta think about everything. Contract, timeline, associated moves. I moved Ruland for Wilkes because I needed a little scoring, and I didn’t think Ruland would be on my roster when my kids were developed. I assumed I’d PROBABLY sign a big in FA. When I didn’t, I went looking for someone who would only cost one of my future pieces, and even then I went with a guy the right side of 30. I see my team as ‘developing and not ready, but competitive and interesting’. You can only be in the tank for so long before points generation limits you, so on your way up, you have to bank some wins so you’re ready when the kids are and the tax man comes. If you’re team isn’t close, sometimes fit is less critical and you can play the valuable asset game, but then you gotta get lucky to find a trade partner.
AngryBanana: An article from Darth in the old league I looked at recently and it brought up some great points that I think should be re-mentioned.
Firstly, everyone is always going to overvalue their own talent, and they are almost always trying to get one over on you. If you are looking at a guy on another team and think, hmmm I bet I can get him for only a few points. You’re most likely wrong and will need to at least double that number. You think that blue potential rookie can be had for a 29 year old blue current player? Nah, he has too much potential in the eye of the other team, you better include a pick.
Secondly, if you are going to make an offer, you better not miss. In that if you make an offer for a player, you better be close to what would be an accepted offer. Where your like 80% there in the first offer. If you aren’t close enough to basically be right, you’re either going to not get a response or one that is a solid “no thanks”. However, if you get it close, you are more likely to get a “yeah, post it” or “what about adding XXX”.
With these two aspects in mind, I honestly like to start out my offers with something like “Hey [Insert GM’S name here], I’m thinking of a deal centered around Player (and/or) Pick (and/or) Points for [insert the player/pick of desire]. What do you think? This allows them to try to find interest in the deal and create an in for me where we can, if there is interest, find a central ground of a possible trade.
The only time I will usually be blunt with my trades are when I am going to try to do a salary dump for one side or player for points type deal. Where there really isn’t much room for debate on the offer. I won’t say these are fool proof approaches to trades, and it doesn’t always work out for me, but it beats the way Quail goes about making trades (messaging you until you are beaten down and give in). However, I am still interested to see if Ralph Sampson messages Quail back.
BigDaddyd8720: When I am looking for a trade, I first look at fit. For instance, if I'm a defensive minded team, it doesn't make sense to go get somebody who struggles on defense. Age and salary don't factor in too much unless I'm in a rebuild. I also like to look at their efficiency ratings compared to their time on the court, as well as who else they are playing with on the court. O EFF and D EFF are the two I look at first, as well as VA. These tend to tell how much they actually help a team out. If they are on a bad team, then I don't weigh into these as much since it's likely these are bad because the GM is not putting his players in a position to succee
Big shout out to our GMs for participating: Darth, Quail, AB, Syndicate, and BigD.
Let us know your thoughts on their opinions or choose a question to answer. Look for another 5-on-5 later this season.
