Do Away with Broken Leg Rating Murder (Effective Immediately)

[IamQuailman]

In light of our newest Broken Leg Victim Fat Lever (who's behind the scenes ratings DID take a hit as a result of the injury), I want to propose an item to allow for Broken Leg injury reductions to be restored. Whether this is free for all or comes with a cost can be up for debate... but we are already given three free chances (and unlimited paid opportunities if you wish to use it) to restore/insure players at a time when we are EXPECTING a ratings murder.

However with a broken leg, in addition to the 4-month missed time stretch the team also has to carry the burden of a player getting absolutely crushed. Maybe the player is a nobody and we all shrug. But occasionally it's a superstar... or a top draft pick. The thing is... we already allow each one of us as GMs to remove negative impacts of TC... so why not this? This is something where you are double-punished, and you never know when or who it will hit.

Devil's Advocates will say "But it happens in real life." To which I say, "training camp insurance and potential restoration doesn't happen in real life." This type of injury can happen to ANYONE at ANY TIME. It can be a franchise killer and motivation killer.

In talking on the Discord, we were discussing options just in general, and we could make this age tiered like we do TCs and Trainings... (Age at the end of sim where injury occurred)

- Under 27 ~> Free Restoration
- 27-31 ~> 5pt Restoration
~ 32+ ~> 10pt Restoration

This doesn't happen often, but it happens enough to merit a conversation about this change that could impact us ALL at some point in our sim careers. Why not nip it in the bud now?

[NY_Magic_Garrett]

I vote for paid restoration. But also paid for young players, just less.

Broken leg is an injury that in real life can actually affect a career and organization. I know we insure in TC but that is enough of “not real life” for me for the sake of the game. It’s one injury that is bad luck and similar to real life.

Depending on the player and age you can make a strategic decision to pay for “surgery” or not. That’s a management decision. Younger players bounce back better so it’s “cheaper”


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[RPF]

I vote for paid restoration

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[AngryBanana]

A few thoughts as I watch TV -

I’m against this because I’d rather see us go the other way with pumping points into players. Where I’ve long thought points were too easy to come by and we have too many players that are way too good in this game. It started with Boban in the old PBSL and we just adapted to it.

I think that at the very least, if we decide to implement this, I think it should be a flat fee that is at a high cost. Something to make the GM have to make a decision if they want to restore the player, or hope they can ride it out because the points are needed elsewhere.

If we look at the thought process compared to TC and paid trainings, it follows those paths. Where you pay more to make the player better at a higher end. Where paying to an A rating is way more than paying to a C rating. Equally, we only ensure players up to a certain age because it’s more advantageous to insure the younger players compared to the older.

With this proposal, we would be paying to restore a players abilities that are hit after the injury. These ratings drop pretty significantly sometimes, and turn a guy from a top tier player on a championship team to just another player. I’ve had this happen before with Pete Maravich right after he won ASG MVP and I was on a like 40 game win streak. I was odds on favorite to win the championship, and then didn’t after the injury. Where if I paid to retain Pete’s ability it would have changed my whole season.

So I think that is worth quite a bit to restore this ability, because let’s be honest we’re going to only really care when this happens to the core players. So you should be forced to decide if you really want to peruse the ability to heal a player or not. Like I said prior, it should be a flat high priced charge of like 30 points. Something to make it really weigh on a GM if they want to do it, and strategize as such into their plans as to if they want to carry the points to protect from an injury.


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[WigNosy]

My thoughts are here: viewtopic.php?p=122904#p122904

There probably needs to be a larger discussion about both "what's fun" and "what's in the best interest of the league?"

I am sensitive to the argument that players randomly "dying" for any reason is not fun. It's frustrating when it happens to your players. It does occasionally happen in Real Life (hi, Paul George) but when it does, it's a downer moment. We generally play this game for fun and things that add negative energy probably drive otherwise active GMs away and that's not in the best interest of the league.

It's also something of a feel-bad to have to spend points either to TC-insure extra players or to "restore" players as proposed here. These are points that you already "earned" and it feels like they are being taken away from you for an arbitrary reason. It's why I like the idea of taking on optional dead salary in-game instead; you have the agency as to which you like and while dead salary might theoretically push you into luxury tax territory (or higher into it), you can work around it with trades or accumulating points, and so forth with a lot less effort - and if you don't want to take the cap hit, you have the option not to!

Points, at least to me, seem "more valuable" than virtual cap space (even though "everything's made up and the points don't matter"), which is why I like the dead cap "payment" more than I like a "points" payment.

On the other hand, I do think it's absolutely necessary to tie this discussion about the "feels bad" of players randomly taking hits with the discussion of players "jumping" in TC. This is an exciting feel-good if it happens to one of your players, but if it doesn't happen, you don't actively feel bad about it NOT happening. As I outlined in the other thread, though, removing random decreases while still allowing random increases leads to power creep over time and I definitely think that generally power creep is bad for the long-term health of the league... it raises the bar on the amount of rebuilding a new GM has to do, leading new GMs to quit before they learn to clear the bar.

And this isn't a discussion I think we can "kick the can down the road on" - the longer we wait, the longer we power creep happen. If we're in favor of power creep, fine, but let's actually come out and say it so we (and anyone that wants to come into the league later) know that is the bar for entry into the league. "Not making a decision" ... is also making a decision.

I didn't vote either way, because neither option really encapsulates my position. I am a "No" if the question is only for "stop Broken Leg Rating Murder" but I am a "Yes" if the question is actually about whether we should "take unforeseeable* randomness out of potential progression."

* I think we all think it's foreseeable AND REASONABLE that players start to lose potential ratings randomly in TC as they age into and through their 30's as not doing that would be ridiculous power creep.

[greepleairport]

If we do broken leg restoration, I think we should refer to player training for guidance. If your player's highest hit potential was A, then it will cost 30pts to restore it (like you're training B => A potential). If the highest potential drop was starting at B, 25pts to restore it, and so on.

You would pay the flat fee to restore all potentials hit, but pay for the highest potential that was hit. Any currents affected should not be automatically restored.

My two cents.

[IamQuailman]

If we do broken leg restoration, I think we should refer to player training for guidance. If your player's highest hit potential was A, then it will cost 30pts to restore it (like you're training B => A potential). If the highest potential drop was starting at B, 25pts to restore it, and so on.

You would pay the flat fee to restore all potentials hit, but pay for the highest potential that was hit. Any currents affected should not be automatically restored.

My two cents.

If we go the paid route, I actually like this idea

[greepleairport]

If we do broken leg restoration, I think we should refer to player training for guidance. If your player's highest hit potential was A, then it will cost 30pts to restore it (like you're training B => A potential). If the highest potential drop was starting at B, 25pts to restore it, and so on.

You would pay the flat fee to restore all potentials hit, but pay for the highest potential that was hit. Any currents affected should not be automatically restored.

My two cents.

If we go the paid route, I actually like this idea

[Jedihero]

If we do broken leg restoration, I think we should refer to player training for guidance. If your player's highest hit potential was A, then it will cost 30pts to restore it (like you're training B => A potential). If the highest potential drop was starting at B, 25pts to restore it, and so on.

You would pay the flat fee to restore all potentials hit, but pay for the highest potential that was hit. Any currents affected should not be automatically restored.

My two cents.

To me, the more random the better. Injuries happen, BAD injuries happen and it can ruin a career/teams playoff or championship hopes. I'm 100% for letting a dude get killed after a broken leg. I'd also be about having any injury make a slight impact depending on severity, not just this one.

BUT

I also agree there should be a way to climb out. Players have surgery and PT and come back the same/better all the time. To me it makes the most sense that you have to invest in that player and not just get off easy. So I like the idea of basically allowing the GM to have a mid season training session, and they could choose to make him "fully recover" or maybe only fix one or two stats that got hit and leave the rest depending on how many points they want to put into the player.