#SLOE: People's Basketball Sim League

• 80% Dc participation
  15 Points made from articles each season
  Participated in 2 of the following 3
  1. HOF Nominations
  2. Awards voting
  3. 50% of Pick'ems

Conroy wrote:I really wouldn't mind a deeper discussion rather than you knew what you were getting into. Was the tax put in to prevent super teams, or simply just wreckless spending. I will say it's been somewhat interesting trying to navigate out of this hole I've dug myself in, but whats better for the league. GMs trying to sign players and trade and win games, or shed salary, be indifferent to winning, strip a team down strictly for points. Maybe the current system is the lesser of two evils, but I've said from the beginning the amount of points you can earn even in a good season is just not simply close to how punitive the tax can be in terms of points.

RPF wrote:Chad serious question here, what would you like done? What officially are you looking for? I don't know about anyone else but I can't read minds. I don't think the debit should be forgiven without some effort from the person in the tax. You went championship or bust and it didn't work out. I fail to believe that you didn't have a plan in place in case it didn't work. Simply state for everyone to see what you would like to happen.

RPF wrote: Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:36 pm I'm down for more discussion on filing for Chapter SLOE but it's a lot to be hashed out and isn't close to be ready for proposal imo. Doug I knew you'd be willing to get rid of the repeater status but as someone who always breaks up his team because of the tax how do you feel about having a get out of jail free card?

DarthVegito wrote: Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:39 pm Apparently just bringing this subject up and wanting to play the game i love makes others want to quit. Sooooooo... with that being said let me save you the trouble.
Bobcats open.

I would take this time to thank those levelminded ppl who made some good reasonable suggestions. Maybe yall can get this sorted out before Conroy leaves(i know Louie dgaf and could stay in tax hell for centuries). Hopefully i'm the shining example for the future of what not to do and no less active GMs ever do it(as Doug so eloquently and rightfully pointed out) . And since taxes are tied to GMs directly that will basically prevent me from returning... so on that note i guess it's arrivederci!

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

DarthVegito wrote: Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:48 pm Doug...i clearly said you made a good point. If it were other lesser active gms the league would have lost all of them by now and they wouldn't have hung around. Away that point i bet the league would have said "oh shit this is a problem" but since it happens to be me we all like...... anyways that all besides the point now. I was saying the point you made was a good one genius.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

WigNosy wrote: Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:02 pm My $0.02 if anyone cares.

The number one rule is the league should be fun. When the league ceases to be fun and becomes a chore, owners will tend to leave.

The tax actually IS intended to make the league fun by preventing superteams from forming, re-signing their players for years at a time with no consequences, and absolutely dominating the league for 6 to 10 seasons (one to two years of real time) with the only way to combat it being to form other super-teams... which means the three or four owners that have the superteams have fun and everyone else gets bored while these other owners keep on destroying them. (Imagine the Penny/Hill/Sprewell/McDyess/Wallace Hawks if I hadn't had to jettison Hill and Sprewell to get under the tax or the Noah/Gasol/Anthony/Gay/Lin Hawks if I hadn't had to move Gasol and Lin to dodge the tax). We've gone 17 seasons now without a repeat champion because college players aren't good until they're expensive, and because they're expensive, a super core can't stay together as long.

So the tax is pretty much doing what it's supposed to do to support competition. Teams generally have a 2 to 5 year championship window, they can't accumulate enough to be ridiculously overpowered, and then they have to rebuild. There are 8 to 10 teams every season with legitimate shots to win the title, and every year 2 or 3 teams fall out of that group and 2 to 3 different teams join it.

It is, however, appropriate to ask, "is it TOO punitive?" And I think there is definitely something to look at here. I happen think the repeater aspect of the tax IS a good thing, because that's the "teeth" that keeps teams from being able to generate enough points to pay the tax year after year - it is necessary to break a team up. On the other hand, once a has been broken up, is there a legitimate need to continue punishing them? I would suggest the answer is, "no."

To me, once the tax has fulfilled its purpose - breaking up a team - there is no need to continue inflicting punishment on that team. How does one measure "breaking up a team?" Well, I think it's pretty simple. We have 4-year contracts (except 5-year BR signings). Since the year the team incurs the tax bill is Year 1, that means only 3 seasons are left on those contracts (4 seasons for a BR signing). After three (or four) offseasons, you are guaranteed a complete turnover of the team (except for vet mins who hang on, but if nobody has offered those hangers-on more than vet mins, it doesn't matter). If "complete roster turnover" isn't "breaking up a team" I don't know what is.

So my proposal would be that a team that gets hit with the luxury tax penalty should have all outstanding debts forgiven and their bill wiped to zero after the end of the first off-season in which both of the following conditions are met:

1. The team has not incurred any luxury tax payments for three consecutive seasons.
2. Any player on the team in the first year of a five-year deal the year the tax was most recently incurred must be off the roster (so you can't get forgiveness in the final year of his deal then use Bird Rights to re-up that player).

This is pretty easy to track - you can easily tell if the team has been on the tax list and you just have to make a quick roster check from four seasons prior.

For example, the Bobcats rolled up their huge bill at the end of the 2019 season. Klay Thompson was on their roster with a 5-year deal. If they went through the 2020, 2021, and 2022 seasons without paying a tax bil, they could apply for relief at the end of the 2023 off-season (i.e., after missing out on RFA and UFA), allowing him to set his bank to 0 and start accumulating positive point totals for preseason pressers, articles, etc. (In this case the petition would be denied because Klay Thompson was still on their roster in 2023; they could petition again in 2024 and now that they had met both conditions would be reset to 0 as of the end of this most recent off-season).

This limits tax hell to four off-seasons (five if you can't/won't trade away a 5-year contract dude) but does get you "back in the game" after just over three seasons (about 6 months of real time).

DarthVegito wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:46 pm Yeah with a tax bill of about 270 points this year Its without a doubt title or bust. With the "player" who decided to leave, I would have bet large amounts of money that Charlotte would have won the title this year. Now that has changed yet we are in the same circumstances tax wise. We have no 1st rounders. I'm not really interested in handing other teams top picks. So when ppl talk about how ridiculous it is for me to run up this tax, it's either that or give the Pistons, Knicks, and what ever other team has my pick the best player in the upcoming drafts. So rather than that, I'll contend and rack up this tax bill to the likes that this league has never seen.

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk

Sources wrote:

DarthVegito wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:46 pm Yeah with a tax bill of about 270 points this year Its without a doubt title or bust. With the "player" who decided to leave, I would have bet large amounts of money that Charlotte would have won the title this year. Now that has changed yet we are in the same circumstances tax wise. We have no 1st rounders. I'm not really interested in handing other teams top picks. So when ppl talk about how ridiculous it is for me to run up this tax, it's either that or give the Pistons, Knicks, and what ever other team has my pick the best player in the upcoming drafts. So rather than that, I'll contend and rack up this tax bill to the likes that this league has never seen.

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk