#SLOE: People's Basketball Sim League

I'd propose a rule - I'll admit I haven't spent a million hours thinking about, it's just my attempt at a simple rule to avoid frustrations. I'd like to hear your thoughts/suggestions.

If opponent DCs are not sent to all teams by 12pm Central on the day off a playoff sim, that sim deadline is delayed 24 hours unless all teams have submitted a DC before then and agree to sim (like if say, everyone got their DCs at 2pm and agreed it was cool).

This might sound silly, but gameplanning around opponent DCs is one of my favorite parts of the playoffs, and we should either institute a rule like this, or abolish the practice altogether. Doing it inconsistently is inherently unfair.

What about putting the onus on your opponent to send his DC to you, instead of waiting on an inputter? I haven't made videos in a long while, and I'll be honest, when they did it was a huge pain in the ass to do.

Or better yet, after the deadline, playoff GMs have the obligation to post their own DC in that sims dc thread for everyone to see. Not a hard task to ask. Makes everyone much more reliant on themselves. If someone fails to do so by 8am following morning, the onus then falls to the inputters, and then if none by noon, delayed to 8pm. If no dcs by 3pm, delayed til 5pm next day.

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IamQuailman wrote:What about putting the onus on your opponent to send his DC to you, instead of waiting on an inputter? I haven't made videos in a long while, and I'll be honest, when they did it was a huge pain in the ass to do.

Or better yet, after the deadline, playoff GMs have the obligation to post their own DC in that sims dc thread for everyone to see. Not a hard task to ask. Makes everyone much more reliant on themselves. If someone fails to do so by 8am following morning, the onus then falls to the inputters, and then if none by noon, delayed to 8pm. If no dcs by 3pm, delayed til 5pm next day.

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This makes sense to me. Really good process, actually. Good jerb, Doug.

I'm going to go on record here saying I'm against any process that has baked into it "delay the sims until the next day." I did delay sims the last three days to make sure all DCs were inputted and while I'm willing to delay a sim by an hour or two to confirm everything is right, delaying a sim by a full day should only be done in exceptional circumstances (e.g., power failure at the sim computer).

I'm also not thrilled at throwing more responsibility on the input team - they are already asked to do a ton for the league and asking them to look at a thread, figure out who hasn't posted their DC, go find that DC, then post it into the thread isn't a great solution either.

The simplest solution is of course to discontinue the practice of sending opponents' DCs - however, since that could give the inputters an advantage (since they can see everyone's DCs on the computer), that's not the most transparent solution either.

I'll do my best to get videos up, but if I don't (and I may not always have time to do so), please do your best to divine your opponent's DC from the box scores - you can see starters and bench rotation pretty easily to work out matchups - and do your best with that information.

Hopefully at some point I can get some time to code up our own online sim league code with all the features we want and this won't be an issue but I don't anticipate that happening any time soon.

There's no correct answer. We'll always have people who enjoy throwing around accusations of mass conspiracy. No matter how much time we take from our lives and put into this league, no matter how much we move things around in our real life because we know it's playoff SIM day, no matter what we do you'll get shit like "but hey SIM league" implying and inferring the usual conspiracy that the puppet master(s) are cheating again. I've grown weary of it.

So here's how I see it. If you didn't get your opponents dc, that means no one got their opponents dc. And none of us are going to study your dc or even look at it before ours is inputted. I personally input my dc immediately after the SIM and if I need to look at my opponents adjustments for any reason the first thing I do is send that person my dc first and foremost so that that base is covered.

So once again...if anyone thinks that there is deceit and that we are studying your dcs when you are not able to. Well there's the door, don't let it hit you in the ass. That's all I have to say about this. Sure it may not be helpful but I dgaf. All these processes will always have faults because we all have real responsibilities irl and it gets difficult to keep up with. Even with four of us, all of our lives have been extremely busy lately and simply getting these dcs inputted and simmed has been rough. So yeah, bottom line we do the best we can but at no point is there any advantages we hold. And if you don't believe that then peace the Frye out.

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DarthVegito wrote:There's no correct answer. We'll always have people who enjoy throwing around accusations of mass conspiracy. No matter how much time we take from our lives and put into this league, no matter how much we move things around in our real life because we know it's playoff SIM day, no matter what we do you'll get shit like "but hey SIM league" implying and inferring the usual conspiracy that the puppet master(s) are cheating again. I've grown weary of it.

So here's how I see it. If you didn't get your opponents dc, that means no one got their opponents dc. And none of us are going to study your dc or even look at it before ours is inputted. I personally input my dc immediately after the SIM and if I need to look at my opponents adjustments for any reason the first thing I do is send that person my dc first and foremost so that that base is covered.

So once again...if anyone thinks that there is deceit and that we are studying your dcs when you are not able to. Well there's the door, don't let it hit you in the ass. That's all I have to say about this. Sure it may not be helpful but I dgaf. All these processes will always have faults because we all have real responsibilities irl and it gets difficult to keep up with. Even with four of us, all of our lives have been extremely busy lately and simply getting these dcs inputted and simmed has been rough. So yeah, bottom line we do the best we can but at no point is there any advantages we hold. And if you don't believe that then peace the Frye out.

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I'm backing Messina up here even though I don't think he was accusing anyone of cheating. They weren't sent out and this was after a few of us mentioned they hadn't been sent out.

I'm sure this is getting old, but in this case it was missed even with requests being made, and I think those people reserve the right to be mad.

The only reason we are here is trying to figure out a solution so this doesn't happen again. Or, we teach people how to read a boxscore. But this is something that has been a part of it for 30 seasons now I think. It's just unfortunate that some were unable to see what the opponent did for the last four games.


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The Messinas are some of my oldest friends. I'd appreciate it if even when they are vocal, we treat them with at least the respect we would expect from everyone else.

This was a legitimate complaint and Wig and Doug addressed it. There was no need to call anyone out and show them the door.


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TrayWithAnA wrote:The Messinas are some of my oldest friends. I'd appreciate it if even when they are vocal, we treat them with at least the respect we would expect from everyone else.

This was a legitimate complaint and Wig and Doug addressed it. There was no need to call anyone out and show them the door.


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I got implied cheating. Maybe you didn't. Maybe you wouldn't. But I did. And when you're dealing with ones who seem quick to make accusations of foul play and cheating, well your benefit of the doubt gets pretty slim. And I'm 90% sure it was implied here as well.

I understand, hey defend your buddies. But I refuse to let anyone throw around these Bullshit accusations. We have all been extremely busy in our day to day lives lately. Yesterday I had to actually pull on the side of the road to send them the heat dc at the last moment cause I was the one who had it. Point is once again that we take time to do this shit out of our lives and I have no problem with people asking why they weren't sent out. But the endless complaining AND accusations...No. Frye that. I'm sorry but I won't have it and I'll step up and open my mouth at that point.

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You don't let anything roll of your back chad, so it's not a surprise you would not only have interpreted this as cheating but furthermore decide the complaint was directly aimed at you.

I like the onus that the OP took on this. Try and fix a problem for all. And I like that Doug and Wig apologized even though again shit happens. I don't care for you trying to run off a guy who participates because he had a legitimate gripe here. Nevermind that he again is one of my oldest friends.

This thread didn't need to get here but you brought it here, so just don't be surprised when others stick up for the guy you are indirectly after.


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TrayWithAnA wrote:You don't let anything roll of your back chad, so it's not a surprise you would not only have interpreted this as cheating but furthermore decide the complaint was directly aimed at you.

I like the onus that the OP took on this. Try and fix a problem for all. And I like that Doug and Wig apologized even though again shit happens. I don't care for you trying to run off a guy who participates because he had a legitimate gripe here. Nevermind that he again is one of my oldest friends.

This thread didn't need to get here but you brought it here, so just don't be surprised when others stick up for the guy you are indirectly after.


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Actually, I didn't think it was directed at me in any way. Looks like someone should take their assumed viewpoint of me as a person and turn it sideways, shine it up real nice..And you know the rest.

I'm defending people who I deem as friends and who I know bust their ass for this league on a daily basis despite what's going on in their lives. And if I may remind you this is the same person who went on a 42ish style rant in the off-season accusing leadership of blatantly cheating. So if you want to make this a personal thing...Go right ahead. Once again idgaf. But when you make a huge display of yourself and accuse everyone of cheating, and then months later make a snarky comment that could be construed as an accusation...don't ask me to take it otherwise.

And maybe Doug and wig are too modest to defend themselves but I sure as hell will. So you can try and divert the spotlight here into me trying to make this about me. It has not a damn thing to do with me. I'm defending my friends and I don't care if you're the most active gm in the league. You think there's foul play in this league then you don't belong here. It's simple as that. Sorry you are taking offense but oh well. The second anyone even starts to mention things like cheating I'll always be the first to speak up. Not sorry for defending the integrity of these people and this league.

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Your first sentence was "I got implied cheating."

Next point, if this was anyone else, if this was me who complained about no DCs being sent, would we even be discussing the commissioner team's honor? This is the same as a DC being input wrong. All I am saying is GM X has a valid point/gripe. I think it's ok if we say something shitty happened and try and fix it. Try to take the pressure off the commish team.

That's what this thread was about originally.


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So...

I don't know that we made any progress on how to improve this process. I feel like Wig's response left something lacking for me, like 'I'll try my best, but no promises, and if I don't get it done, sorry.'

Sure, you can divine a change in lineup or minutes, but what about changing a key player, defensive focus, or offensive focus? These are some key areas I look at when gameplanning against a team, and they are pieces we can't see unless we're shown. I'm not asking for a video, as I've heard those are a PITA to put together, but I think there should be an easy process to get this done consistently, and I'd appreciate the great minds of the league put our heads together to figure it out. It's the playoffs, you know?

TheSyndicate wrote:So...

I don't know that we made any progress on how to improve this process. I feel like Wig's response left something lacking for me, like 'I'll try my best, but no promises, and if I don't get it done, sorry.'

Sure, you can divine a change in lineup or minutes, but what about changing a key player, defensive focus, or offensive focus? These are some key areas I look at when gameplanning against a team, and they are pieces we can't see unless we're shown. I'm not asking for a video, as I've heard those are a PITA to put together, but I think there should be an easy process to get this done consistently, and I'd appreciate the great minds of the league put our heads together to figure it out. It's the playoffs, you know?

Was the idea of you messaging your opponent shot down? What if once a team indicates there DC is in, they then message their opponent with the DC? Forward or copy and paste, should be easy enough. We'd have to live off of an honor code, but I don't think your opponent would willfully deceive you at that point. I'm not sure.

We do have 4 people doing the DCs, so maybe if you are waiting on it, you can make that known in the DC thread and hold up the sim for a small window of time. Most won't need it. I'm like Darth and have been in a lot of series where the opponent doesn't get that creative, or whatever I anticipate them doing wouldn't change my DC. I think if you need it, you should be given the opportunity to work off of it.

My proposals:
1) Opponent is required to send it after the sim
2) GMs have the option to request a delay in the sim if they haven't received their opponents DC. The delay will be no longer than a few hours and will be unavailable after a certain cut-off time. Say 2:00 or 3:00.

I like #2 better.

Few ideas from me:

1) Mandatory post your DC from previous sim in DC thread before noon the day of next sim. You could make a rule where if you don't put it up by then, then your new DC doesn't get inputted.

2) Create a League job whose job is to take DC's and post them after the sim. This takes pressure off inputting team and gives the responsibility to someone who's volunteered for the position. And then if they have trouble posting the DC's in public for a day, someone from the input team could do it. You could even have 1 person who's not in the playoffs do each conference that way it's not too time consuming.

My idea would be:
Have 1-2 people who volunteer for the job to receive everyone's DC's and and then post them in public after the sim before noon the next day. If they have a problem doing that, they can let an inputter know that they can't do it that day. If noon rolls around and there's no DC thread or if an inputter is just feeing generous earlier, an inputter can post up the DC's. You could have 1 person not in the playoffs each year volunteer or have 2 people in the playoffs volunteer and split the conferences.

I like Ben idea of making another league responsibility and pay someone to do it. Then we know it'll be done. It's hard for us to do it consistently depending on life and I think it may even be worse off if we're relying on our opponent to send it. It's often that some miss submitting a dc completely. Definitely couldn't rely on receiving a dc from them and I really hate us having to wait for this reason. So I'd vote for the new job.

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DarthVegito wrote:I like Ben idea of making another league responsibility and pay someone to do it. Then we know it'll be done. It's hard for us to do it consistently depending on life and I think it may even be worse off if we're relying on our opponent to send it. It's often that some miss submitting a dc completely. Definitely couldn't rely on receiving a dc from them and I really hate us having to wait for this reason. So I'd vote for the new job.

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Brilliant idea, Ben! Makes a lot more sense and pulls the responsibility from the DC entry team who honestly have way more important time-intensive tasks during the playoffs.

I don't know where other's stand, but I think Darth just seconded Ben's proposal. If we need a second, I'll raise my hand. Seems like a really good idea.

I like Ben's idea. Maybe make it a volunteer job on a rotating basis from someone who isn't in the playoffs, that way there's no worry about "don't send your DC to your opponent" - you can always CC the guy who isn't in the playoffs.

Sounds like we have a proposal. Thanks guys!

Wig - do you want me to put up a poll or should I leave it to the commish?

Bump, did we ever establish this role? If not, I Don't think we should vote. Just make it happen. In fact, I volunteer as tribute. I think I can make this happen.

IamQuailman wrote:Bump, did we ever establish this role? If not, I Don't think we should vote. Just make it happen. In fact, I volunteer as tribute. I think I can make this happen.

Sold. thanks doug!

TheSyndicate wrote:

IamQuailman wrote:Bump, did we ever establish this role? If not, I Don't think we should vote. Just make it happen. In fact, I volunteer as tribute. I think I can make this happen.

Sold. thanks doug!

You should be the secondary. You hand west, i handle east. Points for all.

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You're hired.

IamQuailman wrote:

TheSyndicate wrote:

IamQuailman wrote:Bump, did we ever establish this role? If not, I Don't think we should vote. Just make it happen. In fact, I volunteer as tribute. I think I can make this happen.

Sold. thanks doug!

You should be the secondary. You hand west, i handle east. Points for all.

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Forgot to actively respond, but yes - I got da west.

I'll send Eazy my DC, but I don't care if he sends me his.